Wednesday, 5 December 2012

Panasonic Bread Machine - Bread Not Rising - Special Investigation


Panasonic SD256 Bread Maker Machine
The bread has suddenly stopped rising 

If you've found this page as a result of searching 'Panasonic Bread Machine bread not rising' keep reading to find out why 

We have 2 of these Panasonic Bread making machines, at 2 different properties. Since getting the first one at Christmas 2010 We've completely stopped buying bread from the shops.

The bread this machine bakes is excellent. That is, until about a month ago when the Granary bread suddenly stopped rising. 

We thought the bread machine must have broken, but we really hoped it hadn't. 

I looked online, and one bread making forum suggested the Panasonic machine may not be heating up during the proving cycle. Mmm. That would be a shame. This machine is 18 months old and outside the warranty.

So we decided to try all the troubleshooting tips from the Panasonic instruction manual - one by one, adding less water to the mix, different brand of yeast, and longer baking times, but still the bread came out flat, time after time.




We always use Hovis Granary flour, because that's our favourite loaf. We'd just bought 9 bags of it (usually £1.39 each) because it was on offer at Sainsbury's. 

The last tip in Panasonic's troublshooting guide suggested poor quality flour could be the culprit for a flat loaf. So we baked another loaf using some old Sainsbury's wholemeal flour.


Success! 

So the Panasonic bread machine appeared to be working - but not the Hovis Granary flour.

So I decided to find out if the Hovis Granary flour we'd used week in, week out for almost 2 years could suddenly have changed in some way.

Hovis Granary flour is made by Premier Foods. They have a helpline number printed on the bag 0845 200 0040, so I called it (actually I used saynoto0870 to find a freephone number instead of the number on the bag - freephone 0800 0327111)

Premier Foods said they would send me a padded envelope so I could send them a sample of the flour for testing, and if it was proven to be at fault they would send me a refund for the 9 bags.

A week later - a few more flat loaves later - and still nothing had arrived from Hovis, so I phoned again. This time I was greeted with a recording - the helpline is open Monday to Friday - of course I was phoning on a Saturday. Meanwhile we've still got 9 bags of this Hovis Granary flour hanging around...

Sainsbury's more help than Hovis!

So on the off-chance they could help instead, I phoned Sainsbury's care line  (0800 636282) to see if I could return the flour to a Sainsbury's store without a receipt. Perhaps they could send it back to Premier Foods?  

Megan at Sainsbury's, who I spoke to, asked for the bar code of the product and some other details, and then said she was very sorry to hear about the problem and would send me a £15 gift card to cover the cost of the flour (yes I was very surprised too, but that's Sainsbury's service for you).

But that's not the end of this story, because I still don't know what's not working - the flour or the breadmaker?

At the weekend we were at the other property, where the other Panasonic bread machine lives. So we baked another loaf using some Hovis flour we had lying around, and this time the loaf rose beautifully - it worked! 

Which unfortunately was more than the Sainsbury's gift card did. It turned out to have zero credit when I tried to use it in store. When I phoned Sainsbury's with the reference on the letter and the gift card they saw the problem immediately - it hadn't been loaded with any credit - and they said they were very sorry and would send me a new gift card with £20! which arrived the very next day.


So then I began to wonder if perhaps the Panasonic bread machine was the real cause of the problem, not the Hovis flour.

On Tuesday I phoned Panasonic 0844 844 3899* (but not using that number but using www.saynoto0870 to find number which wouldn't cost 10p a minute - and again the website came up trumps with *01344 862444)

Panasonic have outsourced their customer queries to Romania, where I was met with a stony Eastern European unhelpfulness. 'Your machine is 18 months old and out of warranty. Panasonic may provide some assistance if you take it to our service agent in Hayes, West London for a report'. 'How much will that cost?' I ask. The Romanian operator cannot tell me, they do not have that information.
 
This is the West London service agent for the mighty Japanese global electronics giant Panasonic...

Kings Electronics (just next door to the closed Kebab shop) in Hayes. No I didn't go there, I phoned them, and actually they were surprisingly helpful.

It costs £24 for the service agent to take a look, and then Panasonic might pay for the spare parts if it can be fixed, and I would pay for the labour. 'How much is a new bread machine?' the man asks me - '£99 in John Lewis' I tell him. 'Well then...', he said, rather tellingly. 

Then a thought occurred to him. 'Did I speak to the cookery department at Panasonic?'. No, just the helpline in Romania. I must speak to the cookery line. 'They know all about the machine, and things to try'. Then he gave me the direct line for the cookery department - in the manner of a scorcerer handing down a precious spell to a young apprentice.

Panasonic's cookery department is in the UK - 01344 862108 ( but it closes at 12 noon, so I had to wait until today). But when I did phone, Helen knew all about the problems I was having with my bread machine. 'It's even been in the news!' she said. What major news story have I missed about the Panasonic SD256 I wondered?

Apparently there's virtually nothing that can go wrong with the Panasonic SD256 Bread machine - it either bakes or it breaks! They go on for years (yes that's what all the online forums say too). If the machine mixes and bakes that's all it does, nothing in-between.

Helen went on to explain the reason my Granary bread won't rise is the poor quality of the UK Wheat harvest. 

There's not enough gluten in the flour. 

Some bags will work, but most won't. The harvest has been terrible. I can try using a couple of spoons of lemon juice in the mix to strengthen the gluten strands, but otherwise I'll need industrial type bread improvers, which just aren't available to consumers. Hovis flour is the worst offender, they'd even heard on the grapevine Hovis had rejected some of their wheat crop. I said I'd also tried Allinson's country grains flour too, without any success. 'That's the second worst!' She exclaimed. She suggested I try Waitrose Organic, but she said it was just going to keep on getting worse, the harvest had been so bad - because of the weather.

Helen said the Panasonic cookery team have put some extra tips on their blog (www.theideaskitchen.co.uk). I suggested she tell the call centre in Romania about the problem with the flour. She said they all hoped the call centre wouldn't be in Romania much longer. I couldn't agree more, it must be costing Panasonic a lot of lost customers.

So finally after my long and frustrating investigation I decided Hovis should know it's probably their flour, not the Panasonic bread maker causing my flat loaves.

 Hovis Granary Flour - They even boast
 'Perfect for hand baking and Bread Machines'

I decide to give Hovis owner Premier Foods another try. The Same chap, David, answers the phone ('Are you the only person who works at Premier Foods?' I ask, 'It sometimes feels that way' he replies). He says he sent the sample bags out on 14th November. 'It must be the post'. I reassure him he probably isn't to blame, 'You probably don't post them yourself', 'no but I can see who does, he's just across the desk'. 'Have they had any other complaints about the Hovis Granary flour' I ask. 'All the calls are logged, but the testing is done upstairs'. I'm getting quite a sense of the internal layout of Hovis HQ by now...

Anyway while I wait for the chap sitting opposite David at Premier Foods to post the padded envelope (its coming Recorded Delivery this time) I thought I'd better get the ressult of my investigation up online in case your Granary bread has stopped rising too.

I'll let you know what Premier Foods say when they've tested my Hovis Granary flour.

Panasonic's tips:
1. Try organic flour
2. Try adding 2 spoons of lemon juice to the mix to strengthen the gluten. 
3. Use the 'Rapid Bake' setting (4 hours).

We have followed this advice with great results, the lemon juice especially seems to have a dramatic effect.

Bread making sure is sophisticated science. It took food technologists 6 years to perfect the Chorleywood process (named because it was invented at a research lab in Chorleywood) - the technique which made possible industrial scale bread production using cheaper, lower quality wheat.

It's taken me just 4 weeks to discover why my Granary bread won't rise. The answer seems to be the lower quality wheat.

Update: 31st January.
  
It took Premier Foods (the owners of Hovis) over 2 months to respond to my complaint about Hovis Granary flour. After I prompted them by phone earlier this week, a letter arrived today confirming that there was a problem with the 2 bags I sent them. 

"It has been analysed by our quality control dept and was found to be not up to our usual high standard. This is due to the poor weather we have unfortunately experienced in Britain especially in the spring, summer and autumn before the harvest which has unfortunately affected this batch. Details of your complaint have been brought to the attention of the Quality Assurance Manager so that any necessary steps may be taken to prevent a recurrence. Please accept our apologies for the trouble and inconvenience you may have experienced. We enclose vouchers as a refund and to assist you in a future purchase' 



 £20 worth of enclosed vouchers which can be redeemed against future purchases of Premier Foods brands - including Hovis.

Given I had to phone Premier Foods 3 times, package up 2 of the 9 bags of Hovis flour, take the package to the post office and then wait 2 months for a reply, £20 doesn't seem an overly generous recognition for the 'trouble and inconvenience'. But fortunately I didn't go out and buy a brand new Panasonic bread machine as some Hovis users have done. Needless to say I've completely stopped buying Hovis Granary flour and do not intend to buy any more. I'm surprised Premier Foods has sent vouchers, but I expect the supermarkets will accept them. I remain sceptical Hovis will do (or have done anything) to improve the quality of the flour, given how many people seem to be having exactly the same problem. I think Hovis should remove the 'perfect for bread machines' claim from the front of their packaging, and consider including the tip about adding lemon juice to the mix. The more customers who complain (0208 495 8392) I expect the more likely they are to take some action.

Finally, you may be wondering how they test the flour? Premier didn't tell me this, but there is a scientific test called the 'Hagberg Falling Number' test for gluten quality in wheat. So Premier can test the product before it leaves the factory if they wish. 

123 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thank you so very much - we have just discovered the same problem with Hovis Granary flour and our beloved SD 255. What a relief to have the answer :) will try adding the lemon juice to tonight's batch...

Anonymous said...

Genius! Thank you for finding this out - who would have thought lemon juice was the answer!

Geof. said...

Brilliant, tried numerous combinations, extra yeast, new yeast, new flour,warm water,a second machine & all the time it just required 2 teaspoons of lemon juice & it worked really well. Thank you for a superb article.

Anonymous said...

Many thanks. I actually bought a new Panasonic machine last month as I thought my SD256 has broken. Never thought that it could be Hovis that was at fault. Will try the Lemon Juice later today and see how I get on.
Rodney

Anonymous said...

A big thank you. I too bought a new Panasonic machine thinking my old one had gone faulty. Delighted to find out that it was the Hovis flour. Was able to get a full refund from Sainsbury's when I took back 12kg of flour. Have now bought Canadian strong bread flour from Waitrose and both my machines are working perfectly.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately I only came across this article today after weeks of frustration trying to establish the cause of my flat topped loaves. I too had experimented endlessly to identify the problem through a process of eleimination. In the end I bought a new panasonic breadmaker as I thought my trusty earlier model had given up the ghost. But the same problem occurred and rather late in the day I contacted Hovis (Premier Foods. They confirmed a poor batch (low gluten) and offered vouchers in compensation,but seem unprepared to be sympathetic on the issue of my unnecessary purchase of a second bread-maker. I await their response which apparently is being escalated. Thanks for the lemon juice tip - I'll give it a try.

Anonymous said...

You can also buy Canadian flour, which has a very high gluten content and is widely available incl from Waitrose/Ocado. We found this out after a few weeks of very disappointing loaves and trying lots of different fixes. Then we read about the poor quality and quantity of British wheat following the shockingly wet year. It's badly affected the gluten and professional bakers are buying in flour from other countries so pushing up the price of loaves. We're so pleased it is not the machine after all as we love its results and were worried. Seems we need to be worried instead about the British farming industry.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for this, we have had the same problem since the end of December with Hovis Granary Flour. Strong White; Wholemeal etc still working fine. Pleased that our trusty breadmaker is not to blame!

Anonymous said...

Wish I'd found this weeks ago as I've had exactly the same problem: thanks for all the write up on this. I sent a letter to Hovis with photos and full description, in the hope that I'd get their attention, but never received a reply. Congratulations on the progress you've made.

Anonymous said...

Thank you all for researching this & posting your results.
I am yet another Panasonic bread machine owner who has used Hovis Granary Flour without problems for many years but has been producing flat loaves for weeks.
Replacing half of the flour with white helped but switching brands (I used Waitrose malted plus 25% white which was perfect) made a the difference.
I now have some Canadian flour.

rosiefranczak said...

Brilliant blog. I am deeply into consumer issues -partly because there is SO much wrong with companies' customer care in the UK.
Not clear how to comment on this blog. Do you only write about your own 'ishoos' ?
Rosie

TheChiefExecutive said...

Rosie - thank you for your appreciative message. This story seems to have attracted a lot of interest!

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much, I've been having exactly the same problem in producing my granary loaves, have tried allsorts to try and rectify the problem, was starting to think it was something I was doing (although couldn't think what). This morning I turned to Google and found your blog via your Amazon post. I immediately fired the breadmaker up and I have today produced two lovely round topped loaves. Thank you for sharing your investigation, very good reading with a fantastic outcome.

Anonymous said...

After a couple of months of frustration with flat loaves with a variety of flours and yeasts. All produced the same flat loaves as per your picture at the top of your blog. Well what do you know two teaspoons of LEMON JUICE! and all is back to normal with light fluffy wholemeal loaves. Excellent tip this-- Thanks

Anonymous said...

Snap! Snap! I have 2 Panasonic breadmakers, one really old, one newer bought 2 years ago when I thought old one was giving up. I normally use the older one. About a month ago started having problems. I changed flour then tried newer machine- still problems! I am now doing another bake using Waitrose flour sourced from 'more than one country' Will keep you posted.

sandirhysjones said...

Thank you! I threw out yeast, changed yeast, did full length programme instead of rapid bake, stopped putting a handful of rye flour in (gives a good crust) - and still produced bricks. Marvellous blog, and congratulations on having an impact as well as entertaining and reassuring.

Anonymous said...

I purchased a Panasonic breadmaker in January and used Sainsburys Taste the difference seeded brown granary flour and it produced great loaves but one day when this brand had sold out at the local store I had to buy another brand, in this case Allinsons and the first time I tried to make a loaf I got the same problem as you and many others have described, a flatter loaf that had not risen very much at all. I thought that I had used an older dried yeast sachet but from what has been said it seems as if it might be the flour. I am waiting for a new stock of the Sainburys taste the difference seeded flour to come in as this gave me consistently great results.

Ron said...

Many many thanks for your help. I've had a run of poor quality loaves recently, and have been at my wits end trying to find out why. I've tried various combinations of ingredients, but your blog has pointed me in (hopefully) the right direction. I'll try the lemon juice on the next loaf, and also change the flour provider. But you have restored my faith in my Panasonic machine.

Paul said...

Many thanks for providing this information, especially about the lemon juice. I bought a Panasonic breadmaker last week and found a note in the box explaining the wheat situation.

It is such a pity about the harvest. I am determined to carry on using UK wheat. Don't give Hovis or British farmers a hard time. Let's hope this year is better!

Gail Marsden said...

I too have just bought a new Panasonic bread machine, never thought it would be the flour. Just grateful my machine was about 10 years old so am happy to have a newer model. On the bright side I am now able to make granary for hubby and white for son at the same time.

Anonymous said...

We have had the same trouble with Tesco brown flour - so we are trying the lemon trick tonight. Must be the same as adding vitamin C which I used to do for making bread by hand. So far Sainsbury's own multi grain mix works OK.

Gail Marsden said...

How will we know when it is back to normal and we can stop adding lemon juice.

Anonymous said...

Like everyone else posting comments, I've been tearing my hair out trying to find why my granary bread wouldn't rise (Hovis flour, of course!). I too bought a new breadmaker which made no difference. I'm off to try the lemon juice now. Thank you so much for such a clear, detailed, helpful and entertaining blog!

Rilla&Biggles said...

Bloody Good Show !
Sanity Saved
We can't blame Hovis for a bad harvest, but we can blame them for downright unhelpfulness and refusal to acknowledge the problem.
Thank You

Jonesthebaker said...

Why does the loaf rise perfectly one day and the next with the same ingredients and method is it brick-like if it is just down to the flour? My 13mth old bread-maker was returned to Panasonic and the engineers report said it was not economic to repair and they would replace(under extended warranty). No explanation as to what the problem was and it came back so fast I now wonder if they didn't do any checks and just replaced for a quiet life! My replacement machine now 5 wkd old has now just produced a brick again. I am using Waitrose wholemeal flour not organic. Shall now go and try again using the lemon juice trick in hope - may then try to find some Canadian wholemeal - have only seen white so far.

alanski said...

Brilliant find and congratulations for spending so long pursuing this. I cant help thinking how lucky I am to have found an evangelist for such 1st world problems. I'd just eat the bricks.....

jpl said...

I have experienced the exact same problem with Allinsons flour, which is even worse than Hovis. Like you I went through a series of tests which produced perfect results with both French & Canadian flour. It seems clear that the bread flour milled from UK wheat is well below acceptable levels, and the processors are not coming clean about it. I am considering escalating this to the Consumers Association, and possibly Trading Standards. It is clear that Hovis and Allinsons are selling flour not fit for purpose.

john2g said...

I Had the same problem with granary flour. I solved it with flour/bread improver

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130520509382

I only use half to one scoops (the small one by Panasonic)

It works well with all flours, particularly those with low protein values

Anonymous said...

Wow you have saved us all so much time and effort. Thank you so much. We have had identical problems to you but just assumed it was the breadmaker.

Anonymous said...

I have also had problems with Allinsons flour and with Tesco flour. When I rang Allinsons, they suggested increasing the yeast by 50% and the juice of half an orange, so similar to the Panasonic advice. When I increased the yeast, the result was fine.

Anonymous said...

thank you so much!!
We had problems with Hovis and Allison bread flours. Added tbl sppon of lemnon juice to 300 gm Allison's premium strong wholemeal and 100 gm Allison's strong white bread flours.


Perfect!!

Given the bread is no longer perfect for bread-makers, are flour manufacturers advising purchasers?

John Kelleher said...

Thanks, lemon juice did the trick - all well and good again. Also approached Allinson who initially took their sweet time to reply and then sent a box to return the flour. Funny though - I'm sure they know this issue but I'm guessing hope that you'll just go away and not bother them. Not good enough....

Anonymous said...

Thanks for superb write-up and especially the lemon juice tip, which I will try tomorrow using the old Allinsons flour, instead of my emergency purchase of different brand of wholemeal and seeded flours (which worked perfectly).

Anonymous said...

Wow! I was also just about to buy a new Panasonic, because of flat granery loaves made with Hovis (Both their Ready Mix and Flour have produced the same flat or sunken bricks for the last few months.

Thanks! I shall now try the lemon juice!

All these blogs should be sent to Hovis!

Mazza said...

Goodness! I bought my new Panasonic about four weeks ago, the first I've ever had. I thought I would keep a record of what I had used and the result so I knew what was good and what wasn't. At first I used some bread mixes and the results were very good. Then I used a Hovis Granary bread mix and it was awful, flat top etc. I found it quite amusing as my husband delivers bread to supermarkets for Hovis in the South East! Then I had a couple of further failures from scratch and with mixes. I was beginning to think I had made a mistake in buying the machine! So pleased I came across this forum, it has put my mind at rest. Thank you every one!

Anonymous said...

Thank you for all this research, two teaspoons of lemon juice has made all the difference to the loaf we've made today - have used the Hovis granary flour for some years, but over last few months have had very poor results. Nice to know what the problem is and at least with the lemon juice solution, the flour is worth using again.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for this fine piece of work.

Anonymous said...

My panasonic bread machine is 4 years old, used once a week. Had no problems until the last few months. My Hovis granary bread has been turning out small and brick like! Tried everything, more yeast , less water, different make of yeast, new bags of flour - nothing seemed to work.
Was seriously thinking of buying new a machine!
Then I found these comments from other people having the same problem.
Thank you - hopefully you have saved me buying a new machine.
Will complain to Hovis about the quality of their flour.

Maddick said...

Thank you, will rescue my machine from the junk heap now!!! After three months of changing the recipe with an odd, unrepeatable success, You have provided an answer. Was thinking of buying new and that would have have been a disaster.

Steve Earl said...

Had the same problems as everyone else with Hovis mixes. Went to Sainsbury's in West Swindon last weekend and all Hovis flour products except yeast have disappeared from the shelves...

Simon Drury said...

Fantastic blog and really nicely written.

You have saved yet another person who was about to buy a replacement machine - thanks very much!

If you have a favourite charity please post it and I'll send them a few quid on your behalf.

Anonymous said...

Yes noticed that all Hovis flour has disappeared from my local sainsburys as well.

Anonymous said...

At Last. The answer to what I had suspected. I always use 'Very Strong' bread flour in my Panasonic machine. It has always been perfect until about two weeks ago when I purchased more flour 'Allisons' from ASDA. Flat loaves! I could not understand why my recipe 50% White flour + 50% Wholemeal had failed. I'll have to give the 2 tablespoons of lemon juice a try. Thank you for saving my sanity.

Mazza said...

Further to my entry above, I have now bought Canadian flour from Waitrose and hey presto! What a superb white loaf and I shall try a whole meal one today and l
Keep you posted....

Bailey said...

Wo is me, I have just read all the previous comments and would like to share my problem with you all; I have had the 'brick loaf' problem for about a year and have spoken several times with the Panasonic cooking dept, and received the same advice 'low gluten flour! I have consulted with friends who have Panasonic breadmakers, who seem to have no problems; two weeks ago one of those local friends and I had a 'cook off' using Lidl Rivercote Sunflower seed 1 kg readymix, he had 500gms as I did and we both cooked Basic Rapid Large loaf with Medium crust, lo and behold I baked a 'brick' and his loaf was about 2 inches higher.
Today at my friends suggestion I baked an Azda white 500gm ready mixed on Rapid and once again got a 'brick' (my friends loaf was just perfect), I did peek at what was going on in the tin and noticed that initially the paddle was going round quite quickly but as the mix became a more solid dough each time the machine did a mix cycle the paddle hardly moved whilst the motor buzzed quite loudly. I suspect that despite Panasonic having told me several times to the contrary that my machine is the problem.
My machine is just three years old and has done little work in the last 12 months; I guess it is destined for the bin!

Anonymous said...

At last - some answers. I am also a Panasonic user with nightmare bricks! Hovis Granary/Wholemeal/White no good, similarly Allinson, Tesco, Waitrose Strong and even a batch of Dove I bought in desperation. I will check how my paddle works as in the latest comment just in case it is the machine. Lemon juice does help as you can see the loaves really tried to rise but didn't quite make it. Now I'm just going to use Canadian flour until our harvests improve. Thanks so much for your blog - I'll keep watching it.

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for all your hard research. I had the same p;problem this year and could not figure out what was wrong. i tried the lemon juice - to great effect. We now have good loaves back!

Anonymous said...

Another big thanks for your investigation which has confirmed the cause of exactly the same problem. We too resorted to purchase of another machine only to find it too baked a brick this morning!
BUT, please don't blame the British Farming Industry - it is the weather and perhaps the flour millers for not letting people know that the wheat quality has been affected by last year's poor level of sunshine. This should be a temporary problem - assuming the sun eventually starts to shine again in the UK!

Anonymous said...

After reading this article I went to Sainsbury's and purchased two bags of their 'Carrs' bread flour. One White the second was Wholemeal. I use a 50/50 mix. It gave perfect loaves using the exact recipe that I have used for about eight years.

So I returned the remainder of the six bags of Allison's bread flour to my local ASDA with the reason that the flour was very poor quality and that I would like them to return it to their quality control dept. I said that I did not want a refund as I was now going to purchase all my baking stuff from Sainsbury's in future.

I contacted the customer service dept at ASDA. I told them about the 'poor quality flour from Allisons'. I asked that their buyer get in touch with the quality control dept at the supplier of the Allison's flour and find out why poor quality flour was being supplied to ASDA customers.

It's a good job I was not expecting anything earth shattering as I did not even get a grovelling apology! 'Customer Service'! This customer did not get any!

While I am buying my baking stuff at Sainsbury's I may as well do the rest of my weekly shop there as well!

Anonymous said...

Thank you!!
I have been baking perfect Hovis Granary loaves for over 2 years in my Panasonic bread machine. Then a couple of months ago, had flat top loaves just like your photo. I also tried changing everything apart from the flour! I too bought a new Panasonic bread maker as I thought it must be my machine, after all the use I had from it.
I now have 2 teaspoons of lemon juice in the mix, can't wait to see the result!
Panasonic have done well judging by all the people who have also bought new bread makers!!

Gail Marsden said...

I complained to Hovis and they said they would get back to me, which they haven't. I have started to buy Waitrose organic which has produced lovely bread and will continue to do so until I get a reply from hovis.

Anonymous said...

How i wish i had seen this page earlier, had a Panasonic SD250 for about 12 years and only had a couple of failures in all that time until January when we bought 4 bags of HOVIS GRANARY flour and the results were the same as the others, flat bread, thinking it was the bread maker not warming up to make the dough rise, and after 3 failures wife said we aught to get a new one, which we did, going for one with the raisen dispenser. First attempt a wholemeal seeded was super, used dough mixes for pizza and hot cross buns..........the we tried Granary and the same failure as before. Knowing now what has been said I will never ever buy Hovis flour again, they surely must have tested their flour before they put it on sale and as it's substandard for bread making I consider it a con. not so for Panasonic as we all seem to have bought the same machine or better from the same manufacturer, proving confidence in their product.

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for all this information. I've been making bread happily in my Panasonic for a year until a few weeks ago when the result was flat bread. Changed the yeast etc. but now realise it must be the Hovis flour which I'd never used before. In the bin it goes...and back to the organic.

David said...

It's not just Panasonic machines! I recently changed my trusty Russell Hobbs for a Morphy Richards for 2 reasons, 1 a rubber foot had been lost of the old machine, 2 there was a half price offer on the manufactures website so I bought the one with a foldaway mixing paddle. After trying old and new recipes, changing yeast and flour, it wasn't quite right, heavy loaves that you could only eat while warm. I'd been making bread for about 14 years and was very careful in measuring ingredients, so this was a bit heartbreaking, especially when packets of Wrights bread mixes worked fine so I knew the machine was OK. When I stumbled across this site I immediately went on ebay and bought flour improver for £4.10 and this has made everything normal again. I was having problems with both white Allinsons and Hovis granary. The product works really, but when the British flour improves, I shall stop using it.
Along with other people here, thanks for restoring our confidence in making bread and not listening to the big boys helplines who say there is no problem with there products

Anonymous said...

Fantastic - hope Hovis is watching this space? Had same problem for last few months and though our machine had gone wrong. I've sent web page on to all my friends / family as know a number of people with bread machines, discussing failure to get our loaves not top of our conversation.
Thank you so much

Anonymous said...

I wish I'd seen this before I bought my wife a new Panasonic thinking the old one was finished - well, it is 10 years old!
Anyway, now she can make two different loaves at the same time if she wants to ...

Eddie said...

Fantastic blog-this has helped me to to return to a nice shaped loaf- Thank You.

Anonymous said...

Well, wow! Great blog and lots of advice. I've never had a problem with the Hovis Granary not rising ..... I just can't find it in the shops anymore! . Have they stopped selling it I wonder? For all other breads I find the Canadian strong flour the best. Shame not to buy British but its not the same sadly. Can anybody recommend another brand/type instead of the Hovis Granary or tell me where I can get it as have tried all major supermarkets. :-).

The Chief Executive said...

Thank you for all your comments, I never imagined this story would attract so much interest!

I feel for everyone who bought a new Panasonic bread machine, becuase I was on the verge of doing that too.

Supermarkets seem to be very low on supplies of flour suitable for bread makers just now. My local Sainsburys was clearing Hovis Granary at 70p (but the shelf was bare).

Since switching to Doves Farm Organic Malthouse I've found it almost impossible to buy at Sainsburys or Waitrose - the shelves are always empty. So today I ordered a 25kg sack direct from the farm. by buying some yeast and a 1kg bag of Rye the order just tipped £30 so comes with free delivery, making 1kg around £1.15 - cheaper than buying from the supermarkets.

There's a link to Doves Farm here:
http://www.dovesfarm.co.uk/

Happy baking everyone!

Suet said...

Thank you for passing on the information about adding lemon juice to help bread rise. I have been experiencing problems like all of the above people and it has sorted it out a treat. Fantastic ��

Anonymous said...

Really pleased when I found this blog in February after my Hovis Granary loaves ended up like yours.
Have been using other flours since with perfect results.
Haven't seen the Hovis Granary flour on the shelves in any supermarket for a while now. Hope it comes back on sale once it is back to normal as I really enjoyed the loaves made with it - prior to the bricks.

Johnnie said...

Just another thank you for posting this crucially useful info.

Anonymous said...

at last some sense,will try lemon juice.many many thanks

Anonymous said...

I have been having problems for about 6 months with white loaves - changed virtually everything & just borrowed another breadmaker with very similar problems. Getting Canadian flour & lemon tomorrow.

Many thanks for your help

Nick

Unknown said...

I had same problems and used a small amount of vitamin c (ascorbic acid) in my flour mix and it works a treat. I use it in all my loaves now. The biggest problem is that Hovis granary flour is now impossible to get and we still love it. The poor wheat harvest obviously means it's not as good quality, but once that is rectified in the ways we now know, it tastes wonderful. Please Sainsburys and other supermarkets, stock this flour again. I'm sure the quality will improve and in the meantime we'll cope with it. Hovis, can you get your product back on our shelves?

Anonymous said...

Was just about to take my Panasonic sd 253 apart with a view of changing the element,when I read this article.will try lemon juice instead

Anonymous said...

Gosh, what a tale. I am having exactly the same problem using Waitrose Organic Malted Grain and Wholemeal flours and was beginning to despair of producing anything other than a housebrick. It has been going on for several bags of flour but not with their white bread flour. I will try the lemon juice trick. My machine is an old Panasonic so ~I presumed it was on its last legs.

Anonymous said...

Brilliant! I'll not replace the Allinsons now. Thank you!

Anonymous said...

My SD 251 and I have been together since they first came out on the market more than 10 years ago. We have lived all over the world together and it has given faithful service. I was gutted just recently when I started getting brick loaves...and I couldn't find anything on the market that I was happy to replace it with. Thank you so much, I tried the lemon juice last night, increased the yeast by 50%, and put it on a 4 hour bake cycle - and it rose like a bird! I'm hoping now that we will continue to have many more years together!

Anonymous said...

Like so many others I too bought a new machine when I found that nothing I could do would induce the granary bread to rise as normal. This is after five years of making totally successful loaves. Alas the new machine was no better and I had binned the old one! Thank you so much for persevering to find the answer.Two teaspoonfuls of lemon juice work like magic and I am happy again. Thankyou so much. I just wish that I had read your blog before buying a new machine. Panasonic must be delighted with the flour producers.

Anonymous said...

You're a genius! Thank you so much for persevering through thick and thin and foreign call centres to produce the answer. I'm using Berrymeal flour and tried various things, like new yeast, before coming across your blog. My first attempt with 2 teaspoonfuls of lemon juice was a partial success, so I doubled it to 4 teaspoonfuls to produce a perfect loaf. This was with the rapid wholemeal programme and possibly the much shorter time may have been why more lemon juice was required. Thank you again.

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for this article, I've been trying every combination I can think of like so many others on this blog, it really needs national publicity maybe in the national papers. We always use Alinson flour but are getting very poor rising, strangely enough though I baked some rools using the dough setting and they came out fine so I was thinking our Panasonic was at fault. Again, many thanks...

Anonymous said...

Many thanks for all your hard work. I too like many before was on the verge of buying a new machine. I shall be trying your tips out shortly.

Anonymous said...

Sod it. Just ordered new Panasonic breadmaker ...... never mind, I at least now know to buy Canadian flour for the time being, don't want to desert british farmers, but neither do I want to mess about with lemon juice etc. I shall only forget to put it in sooner or later! And my daughter can have the old Panasonic. Well done and thank you for such extensive reporting.

Anonymous said...

We have ceased producing brick type loaves and are making good bread again, thanks to everyone for their efforts and advice.

Anonymous said...

Please be aware that Waitrose have changed their Canadian very strong flour to Canadian & very strong flour, the new flour has the same problem as the other flours ie. not rising. I have complained to Waitrose about the problem and am awaiting their reply

Anonymous said...

Many thanks for your investigation and solution of lemon juice. It really works brilliantly. The failed loaves were driving me crazy and I couldn't find the solution and was blaming the machine. Now I understand. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Hi all, I was also having trouble with my Panasonic Breadmaker with whatever flour I used and was told there was nothing wrong with the machine. But I discovered that just by oiling the bread pan with olive oil it solved the problem and we have gone back to making lovely bread. I presume the bread pan gradually loses the non-stick properties from using whole grain flour.

Deb the Bread said...

Dear All - I am Deb the Bread of Wright's Flour mills and work with 64 different bread making machines - I run the help line in the afternoon and achieve some stunning results with various Panasonic machines in particular by using the 1 hour 55 minute prog - to save knocking the life out of the dough and to measure liquids in a pyrex jug. For more tips and a money off coupon if desired contact me at debbie@wrightsflour.co.uk - thanks.

DaveBrown said...

It is now the end of May and we've just given up using Hovis Granary after similar problems because we found other bread-making flours worked fine. Having just found this tale (we thought the machine was at fault and have only just realised it was the flour) we are very angry that we had only recently bought the Hovis flour in Sainbsury's. Hovis obviously KNEW about these problems and have been keeping it quiet. We will NOT be buying any more of their flour - the company cannot be trusted.

Anonymous said...

I use 50-50 Waitrose organic strong white and Doves Farm organic spelt and was suddenly getting flat loaves. I was about to throw out the machine. Thank you! Shall follow your suggestions.

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for investigating this problem. I can't believe you went to so much trouble. I'd have given up. I have been having the same problem with Allinson flour and was trying to find out if others were having the same problem. I will now go and try the lemon juice and in future buy Canadian or American flour.

Anonymous said...

I also bought a new Panasonic breadmaker, bought new flour and yeast, but still produced bricks instead of loaves of granary bread as I had when I thought the previous machine was broken. I knew about the lemon juice, but probably didn't use enough. My issue now is that the recipes for the new bread maker are different and I wonder if that is also to blame for poor results.

budgeteer said...

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

All your hard work and persistence has got to the bottom of the problem. I will now be adding two teaspoons of lemon juice to my loaves

Lesley

Frances said...

I've been having these problems all this last year, including trying the lemon juice and changing the flour to very very strong! Will now try oiling the breadpan as paddle has lost a bit of non-stick. I like Carr's but difficult to find and Canadian has all but disappeared from the stores. As others have discovered, rapid produces somewhst better results, baking from the dough recipe also better, so is it the machine's programmes after all? Ho hum, I'll keep trying and watching this fantastic blog.

Anonymous said...

My son in law is grows milling wheat and last year his crop was down graded to animal feed aqs a result of its low gluten content. All wheat is tested before purchase so the millers know what they are buying and adjust the ratios of low and high gluten wheats to what they judge to be acceptable standards. It seems that they got it wrong.I have been eating whoemeal 'bricks' since Christmas and have come to quite like the texture but will try the lemon juice tip as visitors think it a bit odd.

Gen'e Jeffrey said...

Thank you SO much for this long explanation - we have a Russell Hobbs/Prima breadmaker and had made perfect Granary loaves for years without even thinking about it - until last year when they went doughy and crumbly, falling apart when you tried to cut them. I used the trick for wholemeal - vitamin C - but it made no difference so I started ringing Hovis (sent off the samples and was told there was nothing wrong - but I bet they knew there was) searching online and experimenting with our Hovis Granary flour but got nowhere. I stuck it out because our B&B guests love it - so I have to apologise on the occasions that they have to stick it together with home made jam - once it is cooled it cuts and freezes beautifully for toast, but for the first 2 hours it is terrible.
I was so frustrated I was about to ring Hovis - and realised they had gone home - so thought I would have another search online - and found your blog !! - so much more helpful than Hovis Customer Service.
I will try the lemon juice trick tonight - thank you so much for taking all the trouble !!

Dr Doolittle said...

I think you deserve a knighthood at least,have tried everything and have gone bald tearing my hair out.
Shame on you HOVIS and ALLINSON and others....for such poor so called "QUALITY CONTROL"
Googling it worked...thanks again for your excellent research and diligence.

Anonymous said...

I've started bread making in a panasonic machine after a long break. 1st loaves fine but then collapsed tops using same flour.

Interestingly it appeared to correspond with the hot weather (our kitchen is really hot!).

Our old machine used to give huge loaves in the summer and much smaller ones in the winter.

Richard Aldous said...

I have been making bread in the Bread Maker every other day for years and could not understand why the loaves were suddenly coming out like bricks. I searched Google and found this excellent post. I tried the Lemon Juice from a fresh Lemon and hey presto a perfect loaf so got my wife to get some Jif lemon juice which worked equally as well, when that ran out I tried some orange juice and still I got a perfect loaf, so to save going out and buying lemon juice I just use 2 teaspoons or as I weigh everything as I put it in, 8 gms of juice.

Anonymous said...

My Panasonic SD-ZB2502 produced perfect results for several months then suddenly started producing house bricks in September last year when using any type of flour other than very strong white. I've tried everything to resolve the problem apart from buying a new machine. Stopped trying over the winter and stayed with different varieties of strong white flour, and a variety of different seeds, which always gave good results. Tried again over the weekend with Hovis Granary Mix which was on sale, on offer in the local ASDA. Lo and behold, another house brick. Excellent blog and thanks for the tip about lemon juice which I'm just about to try.

Ashley said...

We've also been through countless failed loaves over the last 12 months and tried the lemon juice but nothing worked and my wife wanted me to throw away the bread maker.

There was an earlier comment here about Wrights flour being good, so I tried that last night and it worked fine. All our problems were with Allinsons and Hovis Granary , though Tescos own flours started producing poor results as well.

Anonymous said...

Anon/Wallasey says I have two Panasonic breadmakers - really good machines. But I only use them to produce the dough knocked back and ready to bake. For this final stage I use commercial non stick tins in the oven. But I don't use Hovis flour. I do use Allinsons Very Strong variety which has not let me down so far - and the difference between "Strong" and "Very Strong" is quite noticeable in terms of rising, particularly with wholemeal. Also Lakeland sell a flour improver which is very good indeed but has a short shelf life - mind you it seems to work just as well when it has expired!
Best Wishes =
+

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the excellent write up. Just wanted to say that this problem seems to be with us again. However, my tale of woe is a little different because I mill my own flour. I am using Organic Wheat purchased from Doves Farm which says it includes imported wheat. Despite that, I have had a few months of poorly risen Wholemeal loaves in my Panasonic SD253. I have tried 'everything' and the only way I can get a well risen loaf is to mix some shop bought white or wholemeal flour which rather defeats the object of owning a Grain Mill.

Anonymous said...

having just bought a Panasonic I would agree with the poster above, it DOES seem to be with us again, hardly surprising considering the weather over the past year.
However there does appear to be some recognition of the problem in certain quarters ( albeit more expensive ones)
I noticed today that the packets of Wessex Mill's speciality flour I purchased to try out the new machine with have this statement on the back,
' we have milled this flour using wheat from Canadian and German wheat due to the poor UK harvest'
which would seem to indicate that the problem is indeed once again the flour.

Anonymous said...

Thank you very much for your post - after producing 3 very flat white loaves using my trusty Panasonic, I realised it may be due to the Allinson Strong White Flour that I have been using. I have emailed them hopefully they will reply. In the meantime, I shall try the lemon juice method. Many thanks again!

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know when the flour from this year's better wheat harvest will be in the shops? I don't want to keep using lemon juice if I don't need to but am afraid to leave it out! Tesco had lots of bags of Hovis Granary flour in at the week-end

Anonymous said...

Absolutely brilliant information! I'd nearly given up. Changing the flour did the trick! Thankyou

Boot said...

Thanks for your brilliant commentary about your research of this problem. We, like so many, had reached the conclusion that it must be a controller fault in our Panasonic bread maker. My wife was pressuring me to search for a low cost new bread maker rather than causes of the 'bread not rising' problem. We will try adding lemon juice to our present batch of flour and then leave comment on the result.

Anonymous said...

A wonderful public service! I won't repeat my experiences, but will raise some questions:

1. Should the flour manufacturers be selling their products as 'strong' when they they are sub-standard?
2. Should they and the retailers at least carry a warning?
3. Is there a trade descriptions issue?

John Kelleher said...

I too had big problems poor rise and dense loaves. Adding 2tsp lemon juice initially did help but some flours were worse than others.
Then lately, it was nothing but poor loaves. I tried the strongest flour I could buy but no luck. Then I bought a new Panasonic SD2500 and instant brilliant loaves. It still needs the lemon and so there is still an issue with flour but there obviously was a problem with my own 3 yo machine.
With that machine, the paddle still moved but when I looked closely during a cycle, you could see that on occasion it just wasn't moving the dough sufficiently. It was an SD254 as I recall.

Anonymous said...

We have had a Panasonic SD-253 for some 15 years. The results are excellent, but after a time, about 4-5 years, the loaves fail to rise. This is because the Kneader mounting shaft unit wears out and needs replacing. We have done this twice, the last time a few weeks ago. The piece number is ADA12R132 and can be ordered directly from customer.care@panasonic.co.uk.
It costs about £39 but much cheaper than buying a new machine.

Anonymous said...

Thanks,

I'm not using a Panasonic machine but a Cookworks from Argos.
However, I am also currently using 'Hovis Strong White Bread Flour' & 'Hovis Strong Wholemeal Bread Flour'.
So obviously this is not just a Panasonic or even a bread-maker machine problem, but as discovered a problem with the flour.

I'm very new to this bread making business (14 days) and was beginning to think it was a waste of time as so far my few outcomes have all been fairly different and only half of one loaf was really successful, but today's attempt for just a basic turned out to be a real heavyweight brick.

Maybe the reason why all the people I know (not very many though) who swear by their machines have so much success is because most of them do not live or buy flour in the UK.

So thanks again and hopefully the Lemon Juice will do the trick.

oldfogy

Christine Snowball said...

I had my first poor loaf this year and thought the machine must be at fault until I read this article on Granary flour which I use though only in proportion of 1:4 with a cheap strong flour from Tesco. This bad loaf today was the result of thinking I would use more granary flour as I do like the look and taste of it. I am going back to using a little of the flour but I will also use lemon juice. Thank you.

Glyn said...

Wheat free loves -it's not the flour that's the issue!
This feedback was very interesting but I use a variety of good quality flour from waitrose, sainburys and my local whole-food shop and repeatedly get this problem with all 3 of the panasonic bread-makers I have used. Given I ipay on average well over £2 a kilo for this flour i am getting fed up with throwing unproven bread away. When i have taken the bread out after kneading, proved it myself then baked it ( which i have to do in an oven of course ) it works, usually very well but this pretty much defeats the object of buying a bread maker for me. The bread-maker does not seem to be warm at all when i take it out just before the baking starts. I think its a fault with the panasonic bread-maker personally, three in a row a coincidence? I don't think so. Its a shame because when it has worked the bread has been the best home made spelt i have ever had, i bought it for that, despite the higher price compared with other makes, but i wont be investing in another panasonic. I will try the lemon juice can't see how it will improve what seems to be too low a temperature for proving.

Judie said...

Another grateful fan! This time for the very useful cookery dept. tel. no.. (For a different query...) I have had my 2500 since June this year. Am using locally milled stone ground organic whole meal flour, delicious - Stoate and sons, Cann Mills , near Shaftesbury, Dorset. First bag produced great loaves, although I have been adding half a vitamin C tablet crushed to powder each time, definitely recommended. Second bag - tried to rise but fell back! So tried mixing with 25% strong white - fine. Yesterday mixed half and half with Allinsons very strong whole meal, again, a good rise. This did give an interesting contrast between the flours, with the Allinsons looking almost like a mixture of white and some bran... Have just been speaking to one of the millers at Stoates, who explained that often mass produced flours are roller milled rather than stone ground, and it does end up more or less like white flour, with 'bran' added back...
They are now milling this years crop (look for expiry date May 14 or beyond) but were mixing in previously some from abroad to improve the gluten. I must have got a not so good batch second time around.
Happy baking all!

Anonymous said...

Super advice THANK YOU
If anyone knows the setting with PAIN COMPLET bread mixture for machines perhaps you can post a note here. The FRENCH instructions for panasonic have the settings in ENGLISH!!! so no good when reading a flour for machines made in France

fg said...

I have had the brick loaf issue over the past year or two and having found this website I know use the Waitrose Canadian extra strong white flour and 1 table spoon of lemon juice.

If I use the extra large loaf setting with the correct ingredients (replacing a table spoon of water for lemon juice) I get a well formed loaf but it is near the large size loaf than extra large. Comparing it to the pictures on the web or the recipe manual is just depressing as it is about 60% of the size.

Any ideas what is happening?

Thanks

Darren

Anonymous said...

Thanks for this post. I purchased a Kenwood breadmaker in August and have yet to make a loaf that hasn't sunk. I've tried all of the troubleshooting tips that came with it (which doesn't include adding lemon juice)and have trawled the net for tips. I've used Hovis, Allinsons and Asda flour and packet mixes without success. It's been really disappointing, and expensive.

GrannieAnnie said...

AT LAST an explanation for poor quality loaves. Have been deeply suspicious of UK flour since 'they' (suppliers, farmers etc.) said they could grow strong flour in the UK.We need a decent strong flour 365 days a year.Do Hovis use this flour in their bread??
Not chucking out the machine - trying lemon juice and finding Canadian flour somewhere.

Anonymous said...

Hi
We use a Panasonic sd256 and had the same problem with loaves suddenly not rising (after 3 years of use. - We use bread mixes from all the major super markets (no special mixes , Canadian etc). I followed the tip on lemon juice (thanks !)and found I needed about 2 tablespoons for a wholemeal mix and a little less for plain bread mix.
The only other time we had problems was with the mixing paddle that had worn and was moving around on the spindle a lot more than it should be . I fixed this temporarily with a small metal shim .(this was easier to see as the mix was not totally complete in the flat dense loaf)

Anonymous said...

I too have had the problem with loaves not rising as expected in my SD253 and having found this forum a few months back, I switched to Waitrose Very Strong Canadian White Flour. This made a great difference (although they never rose as high as originally) but this week, back to loaves not rising properly! Is Canadian flour now suffering from lower gluten content? What makes me wonder is that Waitrose had this flour on offer at a good discount and this has reminded me of buying Allinson's a few months back - also "on offer".

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for all the posts and the information about the lemon juice. We've had problems with our Panasonic breadmaker all summer. We live in Spain and put the 'bricks' down to the heat....although our bread had been perfect in previous years. We used the machine in cooler places in the house but assumed the continuing issue was still the summer heat. We use imported UK flour such as Hovis and Allisons.
I decided to ask Dr Google and I found this very helpful blog.
We will try the lemon juice and once our supply of UK flour is finished we'll move on to Spanish flour and see what results we get.
Many thanks to the blogger for all the research....great work that solved the brick issue!!

Anonymous said...

Re comment on 21 November 2013 08:16

I made that comment. Having seen another post, I gave the SD253 a deep clean and have just baked the best rising loaf for several months (using the Waitrose Very Strong Canadian White Flour as before). Hope it continues with the next ones :-)

Richard Aldous said...

This is an update of my Post of 25th July. I have not had a duff loaf since then and I make a loaf every other day. My method is to place the Bread Pan on a set of Digital Scales, add 1 teaspoon of Doves yeast, zero the Scales add 450gms of Flour (sometimes I use Hovis Granary or a local mill Stoneground Flour or add a bit of White or a combination, it seems to make no difference as long as it is 450gms in total)I then Zero the Scales and add 8gms of Brown Sugar. Zero the Scales and add 6gms of Salt. Zero the Scales and add 20gms of Oil I use Rapeseed. Add 310ml of water straight out of the cold tap. Zero the Scale and add 8gms of Orange Juice I use Tesco but anything seems to work Orange or Lemon. I do this before I go to bed put the machine on a delay and next morning you wake up to a perfect loaf, well hopefully. It works for me. I hope this works for you I used to get very frustrated making bricks until I found this post.

Harry said...

I remember from doing a professional bakery course about 30ys ago that european wheat is nowhere like as strong as N American, but the EU made us support the CAP subsidised EU farms first... Even Sunblest had trouble making it work then.
Also the active ingredient in the lemon to relax the gluten the is he Vitamin C, a small pinch of Boots Vit C powder used to be used for home baking, but I think they they've stopped selling it. So the Orange juice will also do.

Anonymous said...

Di said my parents bought us a Panasonic SD-2500 for Xmas. Bought Sainsbury's white bread flour and had brilliant results. Started new bag of flour and got 2 heavier less risen loaves. My parents had similar problem with their older Panasonic and used 2 teaspoons lemon juice and the problem was solved. So I tried it tonight with the same bag of flour and the same sachet of yeast, just added 2 teaspoons of lemon juice and got a superb loaf risen as usual. So my advice is try the lemon juice first as its cheaper than all the phone calls to these helplines.

Sandie said...

I have a B&B and always make bread in my Panasonic - 400g flour (usually 50/50)on the speedy bake (1hr 55mins). I have to make two loaves a day. I too started to suffer this problem, and although I heard about the lemon juice solution from Panasonic themselves, I decided to mix the flour/water/etc etc in a large mixing bowl before tipping into the basket of my Panasonic. Have not had a duff loaf since. Perfect results every time, using all types of flour, and it only takes a extra minute, two at the most.

breadbbc said...

Read reviews here http://usemyreviews.com/buy-bread-machines-online-reviews-prices/

Anonymous said...

Having had the same problem as everybody else with Hovis Granary Flour and lower gluten content, I have used two tsp of dough enhancer for 18 months with great success. Assuming that last year's wheat crop was better my last two loaves were made without the dough enhancer. They failed to rise correctly. Today I tried again with the enhancer and got a good loaf.
It is time that Hovis warned customers that the wheat crops are still sub-standard and additives are needed for successful breadmaking.

kateandme said...

could someone let me know whther you add the juice at the end or to the yeast?

Richard Aldous said...

I add the Juice at the end, see my procedure at the 11th December text. I only now add 4 Grams with the same excellent result. Someone sggested a Flour Enhanser, why pay out for an Enhanser, it is just a waste of money, you dont need it.

Alen said...

i have the same problem,
thannks for this,
try to fix my trouble